However Perpetua even after making literally everything even Monitor and therefore Mandrakk still had extra power left over and The Cosmic Raptor one of the judges of the source had to take her power and place her in the source wall. In the beginning, there was only Overmonitor. What comic is this from? On her own she's probably only slightly above the Spectre. @superprimetime: Please break up your paragraphs next time. That's some nonsense you have invented and are completely unable to prove. Perpetua vs Thought Robot. I mean, a dunce in a corner wearing a duncecaap might laugh at the situation, but that doesn't mean he understands it. It’s not actually since I was only using it for scale and scope. The Spectre Perpetua seems like she is easily beyond the Spectre's paygrade, but it's still way too early to make a final call about her. Like oh my god XD. Don't you think it's really sad and borderline pathetic that you had to fabricate an interview with an author just so you can score brownie points by hyping up fictional characters created over a decade ago? They were not "trying to become the hand", that's some dumb nonsense you've made up. You're missing the point. I'm not talking about other beings and I'm not disputing in recent canon the hand is perpetuas. Perpetua explained to the three children that her Multiverse comprised of three main realms made out of the three basic forms of matter- dark matter, rich with potential; pos… You've provided literally no evidence for this. But, you do. Mods should be closing this thread, we got the answer. Say what you want about the interview, doesn't bother me. Read the context. They managed to manipulate it by tearing off pieces from it and creating Universes on it against it's will. He previously fought Spider-Man in the 23rd episode of DEATH BATTLE!, Batman VS Spider-Man, Captain America in the 36th episode, Batman VS Captain America, and Black Panther in the 88th episode, Black Panther VS Batman. Knull solos both depowered, i see it more as everything is an aspect of the Presence and those two are just there to be extra puppets in the story saying they are connected and be done with it, the overvoid peed itself because it saw batman with prep, "The Overvoid is a tool being used by The Presence/Source. You have to read the full interview to understand what he means by the “white page.” It’s a story telling concept where the Overvoid represents the space and The Source represents the energy. Right? The Presence is a fictional character in comic books published by DC Comics.The character debuted in More Fun Comics #52 (February 1940), and was created by Jerry Siegel and Bernard Baily Proof that i spent furiously in Monitor threads? Si Perpetua esta por encima de la 12va Dimensión, algo tipo 24 Dimension, pasa el VS con total tranquilidad. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Manipulated implies they have control over the Overvoid. He is superior to the Hands, who in turn were superior to Perpetua and BWL. This thread should be locked and mj and xearsay suspended with a warning. What you're calling "Morrisons canon" is literally just the entire DCU lol. It woke up in response to something being created on it. EVERYTHING is canon right now. 3) I've been arguing without author statements for months just to showcase that I don't need an author statement to prove my point. Separating each thing done to the DCU by an author is sticking a giant middle finger to the work these editors do to keep DC as consistent as possible. I'm not being obtuse I just don't separate the verse by defining each writers impact on the DCU as a canon because there's literally no reason to do this. You, Enigma, spent hours of your life posting in Monitor threads. @ducksarenothot: Here is the image just in case you were wondering. I don't need to provide evidence because you know the comics as well as I do. You can try to flood the thread with as much nonsense as you want, won't matter. female in DC. If an ant crawls on me without my permission, does that mean the ant is superior to me? Are you on the spectrum or something? The Source and The Overvoid both fit that role. @xearesay: Almost everyone on this forum clowns you and MJ, I guess we re all alts, right? Michael 8. That shows the hand using raw materials from the source. They were never displayed as the original owner of it. The hands put the Fuginauts in power. Never. Nothing is really separate. However, the one named Perpetua desired to eliminate the judges by using the seven hidden forces to make a multiverse she could use as an everlasting weapon. Heck Overvoid was even scared of 1 multiverse and made a cage around it so that he doesnt get hurt. He directly predates the rest of the Monitors and when the single universe split back into a Multiverse. Whether the Earth is sentient or not is irrelevant to the analogy. That's manipulation. The Great Evil Beast 5. And since Rox killed The Spectre and The Radiant, it's only logical for The Presence to also be dead. COIE states it was matter and anti-matter(Monitor and Anti-Monitor) two beings who fight a lot. But falt out we didn't see Mar in Superman Beyond so it was hard to determine. He’s talking about the nature of the white page as a void. Also I agree. SO you could say that was specifically made for Final Crisis, tho it's a great series. That has nothing to do with whether or not they are all valid. And everything that exist within the Overvoid is absolutely nothing to it. @happylife1996: There were a ton of inconsistencies in power levels portrayed, that's for sure. It's been directly said to be other people in past series. I don't have to sink so low that I require inverting what authors and the panels say. Edit (1 day later): I might make a new post with more clearly defined rules so people wont be juggling so many things in terms of feats for each character. While the map doesn't show the Antimatter Universe or the Dark Multiverse, the two are still intrinsically connected to the Positive Matter Universe, with the Antimatter Universe (and later the Source Wall) being the boundary between the Multiverse and the Overvoid. He came into existence during during COIE and observed the activity of the first crisis. @mandrakksfang: No. I'm not afraid. Anti Monitor, Volthoom, all of them. I'm asking because I'd prefer not to ascribe malice to your method of arguing here if there is a reason not to. There is a reason why we talk about the different runs of authors and compare how they wrote the characters and any story elements that contradict. Numerous people have provided the same scan to you in the past, the one where it shows Perpetua saying she tore pieces of the overvoid. Death metal could have been so much better. He directly predates the rest of the Monitors and when the single universe split back into a Multiverse. She didn't pull energy and materials from the source because she can't because she isn't superior to the source. Dax Novu was not only the first Mandrakk but the first Monitor in general. Mobius was created by a Super Celestial named Perpetua in the Sixth Dimension alongside his brothers Mar Novu and Alpheus. The hands put the Fuginauts in power. The Source and the Overvoid are like, the exact same thing, or at least they're equivalent. Making her children from the nothingness =/= she’s superior to the Overvoid. It wasn't given to her. @xearesay: u do realize that comic was made before the publication of Justice League when we heard Alpheus say it. You're missing the point. I guess Perpetua is now superior to the Source right? How is the idea of past canons so hard for you to understand? Twitch!!! Doesn't matter, you know exactly what I'm referring to, and that's all the evidence I need. Yeah.....empty words. The dying God was darkseid and he was already dying where Mandrakk dwells. I also don't see how The Presence representing the power of The Source in myth, makes Rox's statement about Darkseid a metaphor. Nah, should be Grandmother by the new cosmology. An example would be Morrison's canon. @mandrakksfang: Lol what do you mean by past canons? The source isn't supposed to be a humanoid figure. Grant Morrison said in an interview that Overvoid = Source, though. ", "The Universe was void and without form... Out of thiswas born that which is eternal, that which is the all and beyond all. Making her children from the nothingness =/= she’s superior to the Overvoid. It just means you can't handle the discussion here and need to troll to try to cover up how wrong you were on these subjects. xearesay doesn't appear as a complete loose screw while mj appears to be a bit unhinged as the days go on. I love how people in this thread still have no idea where the overvoid places in dc cosmology, and instead just go by their own headcanon and insist it is fact, despite their headcanon conflicting with Morrison's notes and recent canon from Death Metal. At this point I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse and obstructionist because you know you are wrong. Explained in the JL Annual, Perpetua is one of many creating many multiverses across the "Greater Omniverse"(pretty much the same thing with Overvoid) and the Source created her and others like her to make said multiverses. Voting feed. You can't use something from a past series where we know it was incorrect and use it to apply it to perpetua. And as shown the energy emerged from the emptiness. She made Mar Novu, and Mandrakk is like a fraction of him or something like that. But, you do. Mandrakk is an aspect of Mar Novu, and the Hands absolutely do not come from the overvoid. Quite literally they ask to lend a hand to WW for a future threat coming. The Source > Overvoid. In Final Crisis is was described the Overmointo saw a flux in himself so he sent a probe(Dax) to investigate.In general canon the original monitor was the highest of the monitor, whether this was true, we don't know since in Superman beyond the monitors described Dax as the proud and most powerful of them. They weren’t the OG owner of the hand. Your mistake is in elevating the overvoids place and importance in dc cosmology. MM discovered the flaw because Perpetua tore pieces from it. Even in your reply, the very simple point I made continues to, apparently, not be understood by you. We all know what the responses will be from that group, any and all statements will be inverted and polarized because you know you have nothing now but to scramble and try to flood threads with memes so only a few notice you were wrong. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. Unless you can provide me a scan of The Source wielding the Overvoid then you’re spewing lies in this discussion. Mxyzptlk 6 mo 18 d . They were never the original owner of it that Krona saw at the dawn of time. As I dug down closer to the very root of the activity I find myself engaged in as a career, I was thinking "what is the basis of the comic book story? Overvoid couldn't go anything about Perpetua ripping him apart and the SOurce creating an infinite number of multiverses on it. This is copy and pasted from his interview, Morrison: Yeah, it's a bit of that. FP Perpetua>>>Mandrakk, heck even weakened Death metal Perpetua is above Mandrakk as the battle was so devastating the Overvoid sent the chronicler to report what was happening as … Same goes for the Overvoid and the hands. Like imagine that. Perpetu tore pieces from the Overvoid to make the monitor brothers (including your god Dax). It's pretty clear with what we know now the hands are a race, and the literal hand we have seen for so long in the most recent canon belong to the specific hand (as in race) Perpetua. But she did? Like... You're acting as if they don't literally exist in the Overvoid. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom. What really happened is that Perpetua and the hands built something within it without it’s permission. Hence why he’s calling both of them the white page. At this point I can only assume you are being deliberately obtuse and obstructionist because you know you are wrong. Meaning it's been used and/or manipulated by something else. I guess Perpetua is now superior to the Source right? You are arguing semantics, and it's pretty pathetic. In general canon the original monitor was the highest of the monitor, whether this was true, we don't know since in Superman beyond the monitors described Dax as the proud and most powerful of them. He’s talking about the nature of the concept he’s mentioning throughout his interview as the white page. From outside of the flaw, Dax Novu perceived every variation of the Multiverse like an endless narrative. It's not like Orlando is a a huge celeb or anything. The word overvoid is not mentioned in your scans at all, and the idea that a being as insignificant as mandrakk is superior to the hands is utter nonsense. show 1 reply . http://www.twitch.tv/eligiblemonsterPatreon! Ok.. How does this change the fact that we know his statement made by Alpheus is not applicable to Mandrakk? Meaning during that time Mar and Anti Monitor were basically being treated as separate things witnessed by Dax Novu and the Overvoid within the flaw. Billions of years ago, A race known as the Super Celestials were tasked by the Judges of the Source to create new life within the Omnisverse. However I do agree that there is little correlation. Mandrakk literally states that she's more powerful than himself. Mandrakk is the alpha. @superprimetime: Except Perpetua didn't create the multiverse from her own personal power, she created it using power granted to her by the Source, so the feat of creating the multiverse shouldn't count. The point of the analogy is literally to highlight how even though we can build houses on the Earth, these houses are relatively inferior to the planet we build on. @joshn05: We don’t agree with everything so that’s fine. It’s only up until now they started trying to formulate some direct relationships. No, I'm not wrong about anything I've said. Crisis Squad lost this argument before it began. @superprimetime: If he listened to logic he wouldn't keep insisting Nil is outside the multiverse or that onitors are still nigh above everyone else. Perpetua created the first DC Universe, however, her thirst for evil and destruction resulted in the multiverse being reformed as the God was imprisoned. And in Multiversity it calls Mar and Mobius fighting the story generator for Monitor Minds legend/story about the Monitor race and CAS. Oh, I think you care more than most of us, as does Alonis. Honestly, outside of here and Vsbattleswiki, no one separates each writers work into different canons. Monitor-Mind the Overvoid 3. So why would the action of creating a multiverse or making something from nothing matter when these things all amount to 0? The Mental breakdown of the Monitor wankers is hillarious . I think Raven is for sure more powerful than Diana, but restricts herself Everything in it including the hands amount to 0. But "God" in the context of what Grant Morrison was talking about IS the Overvoid. Beyonder vs Perpetua # Perpetua She stomp. Also, the Source was retconned back to the Overvoid and not the Presence. I've never created any of these vs threads for Monitors. https://www.patreon.com/comicstorianDiscord! Hence why she’s literally addressed as the “original creator” of the Multiverse and not some fraud like all of these other characters attached to myths that were retroactively made creators via belief. Not only that the Original monitor Mar described by his brother Alpheus all monitors emerged from within him. Would have been interesting to see the specter play a part. This event literally incorporated all of DC’s history to try and organize it and establish it as all having happening. So you can't even connect him to that since he didn't come into existence with the rest of the Monitors. It's not that simple... Michael Julius is gay for Mandrakk and CAS, so everytime someone says something "bad" about them, MJ is right there to defend his lover. Mods should be closing this thread, we got the answer. I know that isn't hard for you to understand, so I don't really get why you are being so obtuse about it. Same thing with Snyder. Yeah but that's exactly what i mean though. The end all be all beyond the source wall. If so, that looks like the design from Death of the New Gods, which isn't canon. That analogy is horrible and false in many ways. Go back to Quora or SpaceBattles so you can post 24/7 about Cas and Mandrakk and feel better about your pathetic life living through fictional characters because you are so empty and dead inside. She then created her children Alpheus, Mobiusand Mar Novu from the Overvoid to keep watch on the multiverses various realms. You would think it would be that simple, but when dealing with religious fanatics it can't be. Your honey analogy on the other hand is false because Perpetua is not stealing anything from the Overvoid. Everyone on this site mocks you because your understanding is so far of course, and so wrong. Get as hostile as you want, or as personal as you want, and make sure you continue to vent your feelings to us about how you "don't really care" while at the same time you post furiously in Monitor threads, non-stop. The overvoid is the space that all existence is. Morrison's canon is distinct from modern canon even though it is a part of it. But: 1. Say what you want about the interview, doesn't bother me. If that was the case then my body must be attacking itself every morning. That has nothing to do with the point I made. There's a lot of hand stuff that contradicts if you look back at it every time it's been shown/referenced. Both of these make up what Grant wa s describing as the white page. And I'm not sure why you wrote all that to me. Classic Beyonder vs Perpetua ... beyonder is nowhere near overvoid level, dc cosmology is infinitely bigger than marvel perpetua created a infinite-d multiverse while beyonder merely shaked one. All I see is Monitor wankers grasping for straws and it is hilarious tbh. What really happened is that Perpetua and the hands built something within it without it’s permission. Meaning the statement made by Alpheus is not applicable to him. In the white page, or the void, anything can happen, everything is possible. I didn't even read about what you had to say about Mandrakk or whoever. The overvoid is nothing important, and certainly inferior to the source/presence. @superprimetime: Yeah my bad. Mandrakk depowered one shot them. @joshn05: lol no he didn’t. There is Elaine 3. Its not a tool. Manipulated implies they have control over the Overvoid. Which is it? How about because the earth isn't a sentient being to start off with. So the logic is Synder added upon the idea on Final Crisis but instead of Mandrakk and The others, the origin changed from Perpetua creating the Multiverse. LOL just because the hands can build creations within the Overvoid, doesn't mean they're able to control or influence it. No i would not. No. The scan you posted doesn't contradict anything I've said, lol. All I see is Momitor wankers grasping for straws and it is hilarious tbh. @xearesay: I already know all of that why was I tagged? The white page isn’t a literal character in DC it’s an analogy for the nature of comics. It's directly said that Monitor Mind discovered the flaw and defined itself in relationship to the flaw. Obviously not. And it’s absolutely hilarious to me every time you all try to take the high ground. Spin it in whatever way you want to, won't matter. She was sent by the Source twenty billion years ago to create new systems of life within the greater omniverse. It's just a big sentient canvas. Man i really don't care what you have to say nor do i care about this subject as much as you clearly do. Each adding new stuff to what we already know. In this case The Presence/The Source. They made changes against the Overvoid. 2) I stopped caring about author statements a while ago when it comes to scaling characters. It's the notion that the white page itself is a void, and in the context of the DC Universe, well that's God or The Source. Everyone likes to look at what happened while forgetting the context, even perpetus destroying ones universe at a time was because she asked them whether they would side with her or not before deciding to destroy them or not. R3: Matt vs Jim Pickens. But that's the argument I replied to. Crisis Squad lost this argument before it began. 2) I stopped caring about author statements a while ago when it comes to scaling characters. Mandrakk is the alpha. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. It's not case closed just because you want it to be, lol. Mandrakk is a title given to the strongest among Monitors, and usually, it's given to an evil individual. You're arguing semantics by deliberately being obtuse, ignoring the clear meaning of what I'm saying, and pointing out something that has no bearing nor refutes the point being made. Darkseid? This is easy resolved by the fact the monitor race did not realize they were all aspects of Mar Novu. So that scan just really shows what happened during Crisis, logically it didn't apply to the later story, or else it didn't make any sense, plus there is almost no canon connecting the two. Lol that’s not why it woke up. When it comes to the DC universe who is the most powerful villain? You're literally like someone using the bible to argue that the earth is literally 6000 years old. If I tore a part of your foot off and was making something near you, I'm sure you would notice, and might even investigate. Hell of a thing they ask to lend a hand to WW a... 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