The question of where Jesus was born and who was there, takes us into socio-historical or socio-economic questions where our answers either shape our political views and / or are shaped by them. If you want to press that point, you will need to offer something more systematic. But evangelical scholar Rev Ian Paul has argued that the entire story may be based on a misreading of the New Testament, reviving an ancient theory that Jesus was not, in fact, born in a stable. Thanks for this discussion. Though the gospels do use some of these terms, they often refer to the land of Israel, especially Matthew and Luke, which of course is a term drawn from the OT (see eg Matt 2.20, 8.10, Luke 1.80, 7.9). I am more puzzled by the shepherds. What can we do for you?” If Joseph did have some member of the extended family resident in the village, he was honor-bound to seek them out. Having read this, I realised that I had stayed in just such a roof-room, jerry-built on the roof of a hotel in the Old City of Jerusalem, in the lee of the Jaffa Gate, in 1981. They were non-religious cultural habits.”. But some fairly decisive evidence in the opposite direction comes from its use elsewhere. I can see how one might not see rejection in this story, and it’s not a hill I’d be willing to die on, but I think that Jesus’ role as guest is incredibly important through the gospel and Luke is usually pretty clear when someone receives Jesus appropriately, the one who is the ultimate host who brings salvation. Does Matthew or Luke tell a better Christmas story? I’m not familiar with Nolland’s argument, but why would the mou be added to conform Luke but not Matthew? 2. The traditional elaboration has come about from reading the story through a ‘messianic’ understanding of Is 1.3: The ox knows its master, the donkey its owner’s manger, but Israel does not know, my people do not understand. A research article looks at this in relation to online research publications, and notes the importance of women’s risk aversion: ‘It could be that gender shapes scholars’ weighing of the relative risks and rewards associated with commenting. Tradition! That’s interesting—I hadn’t noticed that. To make a big issue of it to earn some attention has become a way to make money now-a-days. It is about the region and its culture, not the province and its religious distinctiveness. However, I do think that Luke specifically draws attention to the fact that Mary laid Jesus in a ‘manger’ because ‘there was no room in the kataluma’ . I agree with you—it adds depth and meaning to the story. These details help us to draw other conclusions. 7) M & J live peacefully in Bethlehem until the baby is born. I don’t disagree with some of the practical merits of seeing the other angle, I just think that Jesus’ more significant role is as the oft-rejected (by “good” Christians)stranger/guest who we are called to welcome as part of our own salvation. I have tried to not let it bother me but I find so many wholes the the carol services and carols now. Is you thesis available online at all? The name is derived, of course, from the Persian province of Yehud, a small region focused on Jerusalem, as the successor of the pre-exilic Kingdom of Judah. The actual name that Herodotus used for the region was “Suria he Palaestinè” or ” Palestinian Syria” and this was Romanised in AD 135 as “Syria Palaestina”. Alongside putting up the Christmas decorations (usually far too early), finding a Christmas tree, preparing for carol services and planning where to buy your turkey, one of the annual routines at Christmas is my posting the argument that Jesus was not born in a stable. I wonder how it was found out … and, primarily, does this refer to Joseph “finding out”? A private lodging which is distinct from that in a public inn, i.e. I also think it is clear that discussions in comment all too quickly engage each other in a combative debate between commentators, rather than commenting on the content of the article. The Stable. Once Joseph agreed to claim the baby, who else would have known the baby was “illegitimate”? Are they those who could never attain purity because of the work they did, and so part of the “sinners”, the people of the earth, rather like the tax-collectors? It talks of women ‘being silencing’ but that is not really what is happening. That could very well have been full with other relatives who had arrived before them. I think suspect that there is a deep anti-Semitism that drives this entire train of thought. The scarcity of wood, the rock and caves, these are factors supporting single room, single family homes. Born in a Stable: Advent / Simple Nativity Song for Kids. Was Jesus born in a house, as Matthew says, or in a stable, as Luke says? Ian, I really appreciate you writing about this every year. It's a version of the Christmas story that's become sanctified by centuries of tradition and reinforced every time we read Luke's Gospel. And Bailey notes that Alfred Plummer, in his influential ICC commentary, originally published in the late nineteenth century, agreed with this. 4) The Angel Gabriel appears to Mary Hope that makes sense and helps a little. I am still not convinced that the idea of a ‘stable’ has no merit. I don’t see a rejection of Jesus in his infancy and childhood in Luke 1-2. 2 Timothy 2:23 It puts even his birth in a unique setting, in some ways as remote from life as if he had been born in Caesar’s Palace. In Luke though, my only pushback on your argument is that rejection of Jesus the guest is an extremely important theme throughout the gospel. Print. “I should add that referring to cultural practices in the region as ‘Jewish’ is misleading, since it suggests these things had a religious origin or identity, which they didn’t. 3) The betrothal ceremony takes place in Nazareth and Joseph returns to Bethlehem to prepare a place for them as an annex to Joseph’s parents house. This suggests to me that Luke thinks that it was unusual to place a child in a ‘manger’, the feeding trough of animals. Yes, though it is important to distinguish between the story as recounted by Luke and Matthew, compared with the ‘story’ described in fond traditions and slushy carols! There was no room to place the Baby in that place. If they wouldn’t let her up there due to shame, why even let her in the house? [17], The term is generally accepted to be a translation of the Biblical name Peleshet (פלשת Pəlésheth, usually transliterated as Philistia). Just like the comet that celebrated Caesar or the eclipse that accompanied the death of Jesus, the star of Bethlehem was supposed to herald an … Perhaps there is a marketing opportunity here…, It’s a JUDEAN house. How does that fit in with defining the birth by non-Palestinian understandings? He came to be what we are, and it fits well with that theology that his birth in fact took place in a normal, crowded, warm, welcoming Palestinian home, just like many another Jewish boy of his time. It reminds me of a moving video called “The Christ Child” depicting this in a way that perhaps at least comes closer to what may have happened, more inline with what you explain in your article. I find this disappointing but understandable. Photograph: Philadelphia Museum of Art/Corbis. And in Luke’s account of Jesus healing a woman on the sabbath (Luke 13.10–17), Jesus comments: Doesn’t each of you on the Sabbath untie your ox or donkey from the manger [same word as Luke 2.7] and lead it out to give it water? I try to write little stories out of conjectures like yours. Study Questions. First, as I have commented above, there is very little suggesting in Luke’s account anywhere of shame. It blew my mind, and I wanted to see if this was something more people knew. First, to understand the Bible we should try to pare away 2,000 years of traditions that have accumulated as we read the Bible through the perspective of our own culture and time. The third issue relates to our understanding, or rather ignorance, of (you guessed it) the historical and social context of the story. It has no racial or political sense when used in this way, and you might be interested to know that Jews living in the region in the 19th century called their Jewish newspaper the Palestine Times, since that was the name for the region. Even if there were an inn in Bethlehem, Paul argues, Joseph and Mary would not have been staying there. There is an article on this in the Washington Post, but it is subscriber only. At least, not in the traditional sense. Interestingly, none of Jesus’ critics respond, ‘No I don’t touch animals on the Sabbath’ because they all would have had to lead their animals from the house. . Kenneth Bailey’s very interesting (and to my mind persuasive) exposition of the parable of the prodigal son to answer the Muslim assertion that the cross is not referred to in that parable is an extended case in point. An entirely different word, pandocheion, is used to describe an “Inn” or any other place where strangers are welcomed. It seems to me that having a baby (Jesus) “out of wedlock” would only be shameful if it were actually true. That is for the article! In the absence of a better English word, I don’t think stable is too bad after all. Tim Chaffey, AiG–US, examines this commonly held belief. A long way away, (point to the distance) A little tiny baby, (cradle imaginary baby) In a bed of hay. But it was renamed Syria Palaestina by the Romans after the Bar Kakhba rebellion in 136. Firstly, we have no record of any Roman census requiring people return to their ancestral home. For me, the answer is the ordinariness of the first witnesses, to whom the angel choirs sang and who were given the privilege of being the first witnesses. 5) Mary tells her parents and they panic – will Mary be stoned to death? If he were, that would obviously count against my reasoning and in favour of yours! If she was due and ready to pop and katamula was on the upper level, climbing the ladder to get up there was not safe. This is true throughout the liturgical year, but it is especially painful to me at Christmas. This is a beautiful story retold countless times at Christmas time. Maybe it was fitting that shepherds outside Bethlehem should witness the birth of the new David, when the first David had looked after sheep on those same hills? I understand your point on this being Joseph’s home town. Like my page on Facebook. To call first century Iudaea/Judea “Palestine” would be as anachronistic as referring to “Roman England”. This seems to make a lot more sense than the traditional telling of the story to me. On another one of your posts, a commenter asks “what then is Luke trying to say here?” and insists that he remains unmoved by the idea that Luke wanted simply to point out that he was born in common conditions – in a common room with the animals. Carlson’s contribution inspired me to try and put together a new narrative. However, culturally it it surely undeniable that shame would be a major factor in the events described, and one that needs factoring in somehow. I should add that referring to cultural practices in the region as ‘Jewish’ is misleading, since it suggests these things had a religious origin or identity, which they didn’t. It further suggests to me that Jesus’ birth was in a peasant’s setting very unlike our own. Perhaps as contrition you’d donate?! He was laid in a feeding trough. is surprisingly tricky. In Matt 5.15, Jesus comments: Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. This scene from the Arena (Scrovegni) Chapel in Padua by the Italian artist Giotto shows Mary, Joseph and Jesus in the Bethlehem stable. (Answer: not necessarily!). According to the gospel of Luke, why was Jesus born in a stable? I regularly interview women scholars, and I invite guest posts from women and men—though the women more often decline, and the men more often accept. Paul argues that the Greek word, kataluma, usually translated as “Inn” was in fact used for a reception room in a private house – the same term is used to describe the “upper room” where Jesus and his disciples ate the last supper. I believe it is because Western Christians are obsessed with the idea that Jesus must have been rejected by everyone, right from the very start. Quite probably another member of her family would have been present, if, as has been pointed out earlier it is virtually impossible to be alone in that culture. I myself often fled into the open country simply in order to be able to think. Yes, but where? If this is true, in addition to depressing women’s commenting rates overall, gendered disparities in commenting should be stronger where risk to career is more salient, such as when authors do not have a permanent position. You ignore us and so we ignore you in return. Luke 2:1-20. Decades of research have shown that men and women often behave differently in situations involving risk taking [34–37]. So why should any woman comment if their opinion is not going to be engaged with? Time has passed in no one will calculate the exact age of the child so they should be safe from the religious zealots there. Please see my comment above for December 1 7.18 pm where I recognise the use by Greek and Roman writers. This supposed place of the birth was already identified by the time of Egeria. 3. But Jesus wasn’t born in a stable, and, curiously, the New Testament hardly even hints that … I spent a fair amount of time with kataluma last year in writing a thesis on guest/host themes in Luke related to salvation. However, I’m pretty sure that Judea was more nationalistic, conservative and narrow-minded than Galilee, not the other way round. https://www.psephizo.com/biblical-studies/the-presentation-of-jesus-in-luke-2/. Matthew : “she was found to be pregnant..”. Would you mind if I translated your text into Hungarian, and published it on my timeline? Would they have been stigmatised in that culture? For 2,000 years, mankind has just assumed His birthplace was a stable and that the cattle were mooing, the sheep were bleating and the donkeys were braying. Furthermore, if he did not have family or friends in the village, as a member of the famous house of David, for the “sake of David,” he would still be welcomed into almost any village home. A similar question on the out of wedlock theme had occurred to me on reading your post (though I have been persuaded by KB’s case for some time). The strangeness of this is again emphasised by its repetition in vv. So perhaps they were not allowed to use the upper room in spite of her imminent delivery, and consigned to the main downstairs room, at least in part as a consequence of the distaste the hosts may have felt for Mary’s supposed lack of chastity. Kenneth Bailey, who is renowned for his studies of first-century Palestinian culture, comments: Even if he has never been there before he can appear suddenly at the home of a distant cousin, recite his genealogy, and he is among friends. The shepherds seem to me to be in the “ordinary” group – but I don’t think we can be dogmatic about their actual economic and social status, and we need to be wary about using modern categories for what was a very different culture and class-structure. Quite startling. The typical nativity scene features the holy family in a stable that looks like a barn, separate from the Inn, where there was no room. Yes of course—but the things we are referring to here (such as hospitality, the importance of family connections, the keeping of animals) were not distinctively *Jewish* practices, but part of the wider culture of that part of the world. I wonder what are your thought about the rejection of Joseph and Mary due to their unmarried but pregnant state? The name of the Roman Province was Iudaea (or ‘Judea’). It added a real depth and understanding to the story. We don’t talk about “English houses” in the first to fourth centuries because the land (including Wales and parts of southern Scotland) was called the Province of Britannia (with political subdivisions, as Iudaea had). Therefore, nativity scenes that depict a baby in a straw-laden feeding trough are mostly biblically accurate (during that time feed troughs were made of stone, not wood). There we have the trough of hay or something to feed the cattle. Secondly, it is easy to underestimate how powerful a hold tradition has on our reading of Scripture. The more important answer is that there was a reason for the humble birth of God’s son–a reason that predates time itself. And could that be a reason why there was ‘no room’ for them? Adjunct Professor, Fuller Theological Seminary; Associate Minister, St Nic's, Nottingham; Managing Editor, Grove Books; member of General Synod. The easy answer is, "In Bethlehem." However, the Bible does not tell us that there were animals or that His birth took place in a stable. It is the term for the private ‘upper’ room where Jesus and the disciples eat the ‘last supper’ (Mark 14.14 and Luke 22.11; Matthew does not mention the room). I remember visited excavated houses at Chorazin, with roofs made of basalt blocks because of a lack of timber in the area. He was clothed with rags. As a Japanese, I have an address of registry (even though the family hasn’t lived at that place for several generations now), and, while this is not used for taxation or voting or census purposes (anymore), it is the required address to be used when applying for a passport, or registering oneself as a resident in another city (so it’s different from residential registration). But I still think the text explains it clearly with “no room”. 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